Corey Dion Lewis (00:01.356)
Hello everybody. Welcome back to another great conversation on the Healthy Project podcast. I am your host, Corey Dion Lewis. And I have a really great guest in a conversation today. One that, you I have not had a conversation about dental health in so long, but this is a little different because we're talking not only about that, but technology, public health, and how we bring those together.

Pam (00:08.943)
Okay.

Corey Dion Lewis (00:29.102)
Our guest today is Pam Orrin, the COO and co-founder of GRIN, a digital oral health platform that's reimagining how care is delivered, particularly for the more than 57 million Americans living in oral care deserts. Pam is a mission-driven tech leader who's building solutions that don't just scale, but uplift. Pam, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Pam (00:59.542)
Thank you, Corey, for having me. This is great.

Corey Dion Lewis (01:02.294)
Yeah, so before we get in the conversation to talk more about Ben, our Grand Sari and your mission, can you tell the people a little bit more about yourself and what gets you up in the morning?

Pam (01:14.187)
Absolutely. So where do I start? So I'm a person of many hats. I started my career, actually as a software engineer, software and electrical engineer, and kind of grew my career in small and large companies went through multiple kind of company life cycles, whether in IPO,

and events or acquisitions. I worked for a small company called Apple for many years through a startup that was acquired by them. So and also from a functional perspective and a role perspective, I played many parts. So like I said, I started as an engineer, but then grew into more product and operational and strategy roles throughout my career.

Somewhere along the line, I also did my MBA. And while other people focused more on, you know, finance and consulting side of that space, and how could they make more money with their degree, I actually was really focused on courses to do with corporate social responsibility and public strategy and so forth.

So I always knew that somehow I would take my technology experience and apply it to making impact and really wanted to work for a company that makes this world a better place. So that's a little bit about myself.

Corey Dion Lewis (02:54.39)
Man, that's amazing. That's amazing. So I would love to talk more about, know what? I love the background in technology and what inspired you to co-found GRIN and why oral health, you know, something that is often overlooked in the health tech conversation.

Pam (03:15.535)
100%. So it's funny that you asked that question this way, that is so often overlooked, because I myself was one of those people where, and you'll hear it in how we started Grin, and how I came to be about a founder of Grin on how this really wasn't friend of mine for me. Or like I said, throughout my career, I was involved in many

outlets of activity, let's call it. And in one of those activities, my husband and I were actually amateur investors in a startup in the health tech space. It was a different space in oral health, but this is how I kind of came into the community of founding partners. And then when that company kind of was successful and sold to a large medical device company, the founders

reached out to me and said, you know, there's this really interesting problem in in oral health. There's a there's a large gap where people are actually, you know, due to issues with access, they're turning to suboptimal solutions. So I was like, wow, this sounds like a pretty interesting gap and hole. But what do I have to do with oral health?

And, but it kind of stayed in my mind as a problem. And I remember I said, give me give me a few days, I reached out to a community that I have of business professionals that, again, that I know through from my career. And I asked them, you know, and they're all about their solving problems in different disciplines in different industries. So I knew that I would get you know, the variety of information.

And I reached out to them and I said, listen, anyone who is willing to talk to me, I'd like to interview you. And I think I interviewed a dozen of these business professional people over one weekend. And I came back to my now founding partners and I said, there's definitely a hole in this industry and there's definitely an opportunity to fill it. And that's how we founded Grin.

Corey Dion Lewis (05:42.327)
Wow.

Pam (05:43.277)
That's our story. I can go on and on about what the product does, but I'm sure you'll have questions about that as we move on.

Corey Dion Lewis (05:52.662)
Yeah, absolutely. Was there a particular moment or even insight that kind of crystallized the need for a digital first solution in oral health deserts?

Pam (06:08.751)
100%. Listen, we can take a step back and talk about the actual data. So there's lots, lots and lots of data and articles and you know, the problem is being crystallized in and is getting now more attention, thankfully. But I think the the large information that maybe the audience needs to understand is that

Corey Dion Lewis (06:15.384)
Mm-hmm.

Pam (06:35.023)
one in every two people in the world is suffering from some kind of dental ailment or dental disease. One in every two. So it's approximately, you know, 3.5 to 4 billion people are actually affected by dental disease, which is the most prevalent NCD issue. So non-communicable disease, which is just like

who have cardiovascular disease and other diseases that are non-transferable. And same goes for an oral health and oral disease. I don't think people realize that. And then the other point in the data is that why do people not get an oral health care or don't take care of their dental issue? So a lot of it basically is it revolves around barriers that are actually fear cost.

but then also access and shortage in providers. So that's like one, if you look at it kind of top down, the data is there. But for me on a personal level, and let's call it bottom up, I think there were a few moments that really crystallized the need in taking our solution and really taking it to the public and to public health and solving.

larger public health issues was with early on, we did a few experiments in and collaborated in Head Start programs. Those of you in the audience who don't know what Head Start programs are, these are programs for a younger Medicaid programs for those younger age populations, ages three to five. And they they kind of enter into the healthcare system through

help from, you know, the state to participate into these programs. I and and participating into programs such as the ADA, the American Dental Association, Give Kids a Smile, and going into these, you know, large population events where we can use grin to really scan what's going on in these children's mouth. Our mouths really, really crystallize the need because the

Pam (09:03.065)
type of things, Corey, that we saw in these patients' mouth. And these are things that these patients are not being able to, they can't even communicate. So it's kind of like, hey, the data is there, but seeing is believing. So when we participated in some of these, and I personally, with my own hands, used Grin to scan some of these patients, younger populations, and then also elderly adults.

Corey Dion Lewis (09:12.824)
Hmm.

Pam (09:30.363)
And it's just mind blowing that we have so many people amongst us walking in the streets, kind of participating in school, the inside of their mouth is actually not being seen and not being taken care of. So that to me was a kind of light bulb event, if you call it, to understand that we really have to serve this population and we can really

Corey Dion Lewis (09:54.219)
Yeah.

Pam (09:58.903)
reach into those patients' mouths and help them, prioritize them, triage them, help them be seen, and then take care of the issue after that. Yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (10:10.006)
Yeah, know, what I hear you saying, know, this really kind of closes that gap in care where a lot of these kids and their families maybe don't have access to transportation to get to a dentist or something like that. Or they're growing up where you're not going to the dentist until you have a toothache or until there's like pain.

and, that by that point is too late and now we're developing these very bad dental, preventative habits, if that, if that makes sense. And yeah, so being able to do that. And I'm sure, you know, as a kid is probably a little less scary than going to a clinic. half the most of the time.

Pam (10:41.839)
Yeah.

Pam (11:03.511)
you hit the nail on the head, there's a instilling those healthy habits or preventative habits is such an important discipline that we should teach our population that at an early age. But this goes and I'm sure we'll talk about it later kind of during the show. But there's a there's a just a variety of ripple effects of

not dealing with or not instilling that preventative discipline in a person's or in a patient's mind early on in their lives. So, you know, as an adult, if you if you were suffering or you didn't take care of early in dental decay, then the the issue then becomes much more acute.

You then become obviously a critical care patient where you have to go into the emergency room, unfortunately, and then the costs go higher. So there's a, you're an absentee from work, you lose salary, the company loses efficiency. So there's just a ripple effect of obviously of issues that because our mouth and our oral hair,

Corey Dion Lewis (12:17.934)
Mm-hmm.

Pam (12:28.391)
oral health sorry is overlooked. It just creates kind of a magnitude of issues later down the line, not to speak about and I'm sure we'll also touch on that in the later down the show, but not to speak about the the strong linkage between oral health and full body health. So what we call what we now coin as the oral systemic health

Corey Dion Lewis (12:53.708)
Yes.

Pam (12:57.615)
And that's something that I'm also personally very passionate about. you, the industry has now been able to not only prove correlation, but also causation by oral health issues into other large, you know, medical issues, the major ones like

Corey Dion Lewis (13:14.506)
Mmm.

Pam (13:27.417)
cardiovascular disease and cognitive issues, premature labor, diabetes, all more critical and more terrible, so to speak, if you start from oral disease in the mouth. that's something that's definitely another issue that is not as known.

Corey Dion Lewis (13:46.646)
interestinging.

Pam (13:52.943)
But we're starting to build a little bit more awareness when it comes to that.

Corey Dion Lewis (13:59.278)
That's very interesting. Pam, as a clinical health coach in a safety net hospital, is a part of my role. The oral health as a preventative measure, as far as my role, never comes up. oral health is rarely centered around in public health dialogue. Why do you believe it's critical to treat it as a

core social driver of health.

Pam (14:30.851)
We hear this all the time. What you just said, we speak to, you're not alone. We go to, and more recently, I've spoken to so many community health leaders.

Corey Dion Lewis (14:38.958)
Hahaha!

Pam (14:49.727)
community health center leaders on the medical side, who tell me exactly the same thing, you know, hospital personnel, long term facility, and, you know, head nurses and educators, and they say exactly the same thing as you said, it doesn't come up. So why do I think it needs to be kind of center is like a social determinant of health, of health, sorry.

So many for two reasons. Number one is it, our smile. And when we open up our mouths and we smile, they are, it's directly linked to our, you know, what we feel about our self worth. How we show up, how we build our confidence.

Corey Dion Lewis (15:42.446)
100%, yeah.

Pam (15:50.105)
But also going from our self worth, confident, it's also how we perceived. If our mouth is unhealthy, a lot of times and it's already been proven that there is reduction in economic opportunity, meaning being able to land a job if you have oral health issues. So you'll have more trouble to land a job if your smile is unhealthy.

not straight, yellow, etc. Missing teeth. that's kind of on the self worth and then the impact on you kind of socially and economically. The other other side, which is what I discussed previously is the oral systemic health, right? So the fact that our body is sorry, our mouth is part of our full body.

and now that is directly linked to some of these kind of more serious chronic conditions and it can affect them to become worse. So basically our mouth, while it's overlooked, it's actually central to our overall medical health.

Corey Dion Lewis (17:12.078)
man, that's, I need to do a better job. And you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I kind of want to, if you can maybe go a little more in depth that that's okay. You know, some of the, you know, the downstream effects, the, you know, economically, medically, and or socially of poor access to oral care. What are some of the things that people may not realize?

Pam (17:16.013)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Pam (17:41.335)
Yeah, so I touched on the linkage to the oral systemic health. I and I touched on kind of the self worth and the economic result of it. There's actually two additional, you know, two more direct or personal examples, when it comes to kind of the downstream effects, economically, medically, socially.

One of them is absenteeism. We talked about absenteeism.

It's kind of crazy. We are now engaging with one of the largest manufacturers in Brazil, for example. you can think about, that's just one example, but you can think about a lot of large employers in the US and then in other countries in the world. And a lot of times what they would do is in order to streamline care or, you know, benefits for their

for their employees, would have some kind of medical care in-house or tethered to the organization. Today, it has also become kind of, and I think you may have spoken about it in your podcast as well, it became also trendy for the right reason to have mental health.

be part of that ecosystem of available resources for employees. So this very large employer in Brazil reached out to us and said, you know what, Grin? We have a medical doctor. We don't have a dentist or an oral health professional in-house providing services as an extension to the team.

Pam (19:46.669)
But what we realized counter intuitively is one of the main reasons for people not showing up for work basically for absenteeism is oral health and dental issues. people it starts with them ignoring toothache or not taking care of preventative of oral health issues. And then it becomes okay.

Corey Dion Lewis (19:59.683)
Mmm.

Pam (20:10.455)
I need to go to the emergency room because I can't make it to work. And that became their number one issue for medical reasons for absenteeism. So if you can take that example and apply it across the board, you'll understand that this is a major issue for people either losing a salary due to not making it to work.

and having to take time off, not to talk about having to take time off because of their, you know, loved ones or, you know, their guardians, having to take care of other people and taking them logistically to take care of that issue. The other reason is it ties to an example I gave before about some time we spent with the communities and using grin to reach into these patients' mouths.

Corey Dion Lewis (21:04.067)
Mm-hmm.

Pam (21:05.079)
And now through our providers, happens everywhere and all the time across the US. But what's crazy is to actually see a result of malnutrition. So it's again, another thing that gets overlooked, but a lot of times with these populations who are marginal or

Corey Dion Lewis (21:21.934)
Mmm.

Pam (21:33.167)
younger populations or older populations. So whether these children who are, you know, 10 and under or even, you know, 18 and under and are in the school system, but are not being, you know, a need to be taken to see a dentist and are not necessarily being checked or in long-term care facilities where, again, also harder to communicate what the issue is.

and logistically very hard access to dental care, what we're seeing is that they actually, painful mouths actually lead to not eating, not sleeping, and difficulty to focus. And the result of that is also detrimental over time, if you think about it, when you apply that issue with children.

and so forth. I had, you know, multiple times the opportunity to see firsthand and children, we scan them with grin, which allows us to an asynchronous the kind of provide the imagery to the necessary provider, the dentist who's not necessarily there, but but to create that connection ecosystem. But I'm there seeing the child and I don't need to be I actually don't need to be I'm

Corey Dion Lewis (22:57.175)
Right.

Pam (23:00.065)
I'm not a medical doctor, I don't need to be an audit. I'm a mother of four. So you know, I can can I can relate to what the child to what the child is feeling that anyone can see when the type of tooth decay that these children sometimes have. And you can immediately and extrapolate on their day to day experience as a result of what's going on in their mouth.

So, yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (23:29.442)
Right. Wow. You've spoken about building equity into the infrastructure of a product and not treating it as an afterthought. What does that look like in practice at Grid?

Pam (23:48.845)
That's a great question. I think I may have mentioned that I, at some point in, you know, in my career, I also was a product manager. So these type of questions are very near and dear to my heart is how do you, how do you build from the ground up in the best possible way while thinking of all the, all the factors that come into play? So to answer your question,

I think there are multiple things, but one of the things that Grin really, really focuses on and is notorious for is number one, simplicity. So really straightforward, intuitive tools that are easy to use. Number two is accessibility of the tools. So it can work anywhere and anytime and from anywhere.

And the third thing is affordability. So we design our tools really to kind of with low cost front and center so that it's inexpensive and can be deployed easily.

Corey Dion Lewis (25:06.164)
nice. And how do you ensure that these features and workflows are designed to serve communities that are often digitally excluded?

Pam (25:17.997)
That's, yeah, so this is something that we've basically designed really from the beginning. Grin, and we've improved also over time. There were multiple occasions where we kind of encountered issues even in our own design, but then we went to make sure that this is a core kind of value of what we deliver. So we went to fix it.

And what we were always trying to achieve is that you basically don't need broadband. You don't need a computer. All you need is a smartphone and most people have one. And even in remote, secluded areas, or if you're in a basement of a hospital or in a basement of a church where you need to see many children, you can use Grin.

just using a phone and scanning them one by one in a very efficient and effective way. So really, that's how Grin is designed from the ground up.

Corey Dion Lewis (26:30.092)
No, I'm super curious too. Like what metrics or like feedback loops do you use to gauge whether Grin is actually delivering on its equity goals?

Pam (26:42.477)
Yeah. KPI is again, speaking like a true, I guess, operational manager and product manager. This is my favorite topic. How do we look at the data? And how do we, you know, make sense out of the data? And how do we continuously improve over that data? So this is again, something that I hold myself.

at the highest standards as well as our team. But if there are a few things that just to answer your question, number one is efficiency. So we have to make sure that whatever the care team and the providers who are using our tool, we're not making them, we're making them faster, we're making them better, we're allowing them to basically see a larger amount of patients.

And so efficiency is one of the key things that we're looking at. And I'm proud to say that we've done some studies and using GRAN and scanning patients in remote areas. We were able to achieve results of two times faster in their workflows. Now, two times faster might not mean much, but in the GRAN scheme of things,

That might mean that I've returned three to four hours a week for them, or sometimes a day where they can see more patients or do other things. So that's on the efficiency side. The second thing is actually measuring the lives touched. So were we able, thanks to GRIN, allow these providers who are out there in the field

Corey Dion Lewis (28:13.774)
Mmm.

Pam (28:38.009)
to see more patients. Were we able, thanks to having GRIN, allow a provider to consider going to another location or distant location, going to another long-term care facility because they feel empowered and enabled because they have GRIN. The other thing which is also a very

Corey Dion Lewis (29:01.325)
Right.

Pam (29:07.375)
high metric that I love, a very high importance metrics, metric that I love is behavioral change. we talked about preventative activity before that and how do we drive change amongst communities when it comes to taking care of their oral health. One of the things we were able to do with GRIN is we ran a study where using GRIN in

tele dentistry communication where you have a clinical provider on the other end discussing with the patient on how they could do better in terms of their oral care. Are we able to see change over time? And guess what? We were able to see that in a study where we in this case, I think we had a thousand subjects where we showed that over course of

six months to a year, if there is intervention by a care professional on the other side that can see what's going on in the patient's mouth and asking them to change habits, we actually saw that there's a 53 % reduction in plaque pixels in their mouth. So think about it. Now these patients are healthier.

And it's all thanks to a very simple activity that they did of taking an image of their mouth and having an asynchronous intervention from a care professional on the other end. And then the last, I think you asked me about KPIs, I think maybe another very important KPI is are we able to reduce the health system burden?

Corey Dion Lewis (30:33.293)
Damn it.

Pam (30:59.343)
So from the health system burden, are we able to reduce kind of the cost of care on an individual basis and on a population? And then are we able to reduce, and then from the other direction, as from a patient perspective, are we able to reduce their health system burden by saying, okay, now I don't need to take a full day off work in order to travel to be monitored

Corey Dion Lewis (31:24.502)
Right.

Pam (31:28.815)
or to be seen by a provider that doesn't, you know, and have to go back and forth, back and forth. You know, I can do that in a more efficient way and maintain my health, basically. So I hope I answered your question, but I have a lot to say about, you know, performance metrics and how we measure, you know, our influence and impact. Yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (31:45.452)
You did.

Yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (31:56.044)
Yeah, know, there's something, know, one of my main questions I ask myself when I'm having these conversations or if I'm thinking of something on how we can reduce, you know, the barriers in some of our under-resourced or underserved communities is some of these people are, they have to come see me and when they're taking that time off, they may work at a job where they don't have paid time off.

Pam (32:19.439)
Okay.

Corey Dion Lewis (32:24.042)
or the time they're off, they are taking that unpaid. So how can we make this as efficient for them as possible, make it worth it for them? And you know, if I can't answer that question, like is this gonna be worth it for you to miss that, you know, whatever that is an hour, that's concerning. It's like, that kind of sucks. That makes sense. So it's one of those things where...

For those that may not have some of the privileges as others where they can just say, I'm taking a couple hours and still get paid. What are some of the innovation that we can do for those people?

Pam (32:49.103)
That's the core of what Grin does. So Grin, I have so much to say about this. I don't have the full statistics, but what you just described is a

is an everyday issue for so many Americans, right? And I can tell you, I can tell you even as someone who theoretically could take the time off because I do get paid not on an hourly basis, etc. Just as an individual, I can tell you that I think twice because on whether to go to a, I sometimes delay my own

you know, appointments, because I'm prioritizing other things. So you can only imagine if I were to get, you know, to lose pay as a result of that, that, that, that, you know, that the consideration that is going through the minds of so many Americans, absolutely. So, but to answer your question, Grin technology has that built in a foundational way.

Corey Dion Lewis (33:47.512)
Yeah.

Pam (34:13.345)
All we think about all day long is how can we streamline these activities for the patient and the consumer, as well as for the provider, because it is important for us to also make sure that the provider has the tools to be as efficient as they can with the population of patients that they treat. But first and foremost, we believe that once we address kind of the ability to streamline

Corey Dion Lewis (34:28.686)
Mm-hmm.

Pam (34:42.383)
the care for the patient, the individual, then the provider will also jump onto that bandwagon of care loop and want to provide the care. So there's like a two-sided network effect situation here where we want to ensure that the patient has

the utmost convenience. by when I say convenience, don't mean like luxury convenience, mean, convenience in terms of, okay, this is easy enough for me to be able to use the platform. And therefore, I will seek the preventative health that I need, or, you know, or the health advice that I need immediately. And from there on, it just gets better over time.

Corey Dion Lewis (35:19.224)
Right.

Pam (35:41.005)
because I'm in the care loop versus being outside of it.

Corey Dion Lewis (35:44.876)
Yeah, know, Pam, I'm super curious. What does this mean to you to be building a technology like GRIN that uplifts, you know, rather than just scales? I understand scaling and stuff, that's important, but how does it feel to be doing something that has such an impact?

Pam (36:08.599)
it. I've always wanted to be on the side of doing well by doing good. So I know this, this may sound like a cliche, but you know, that sentence stuck into my mind from, you know, the early days of my university education. And I've always wanted to be on that kind of always wanted to have that be the motto of my career. So

You know, we, I believe that the scaling will come as a result of the uplifting to answer your question. So as long as we can, you know, uplift the solution can stick and then as a result of that, can scale. The app in the world we live in today,

I'm sure I don't have to tell you there's so much uncertainty, know, global friction, economical internal friction, there's there's so much what will AI do to our to our jobs, etc, etc. I think it's a very grounding feeling to be able to look at each patient that you helped.

Corey Dion Lewis (37:10.094)
Absolutely.

Pam (37:34.895)
you know, one patient at a time or one day at a time. And once you realize that you've been able to help impact that patient's life and, you know, give give them a smile or help a child thrive. You know that your product helped kind of make make that happen.

That's the ultimate ROI. You ask about, know, uplifting versus scaling. When we talk about scaling, we talk about ROI and return on investment and so forth. The ultimate ROI is once you know that your product really helped one person at a time achieve their smile, get better about their health and so forth.

Corey Dion Lewis (38:25.038)
100%. That's amazing. So I'm going to ask you a pretty big question, which is something looking in the future for us. Where do you think digital oral health will be in five years and what role will GRIN play in shaping that future?

Pam (38:41.935)
That's a very good question. I think there are probably three or four things that I'll focus on. the near future, in the next five years, we will move into much more automated diagnosis, which means that

you can take it, you can take us whether with the grin or with a different tool. Hopefully it would be with grin, but you can take a scan of your mouth and automatically we would know what's going on in your mouth so that that could really streamline the process of then receiving care. It would be much more personalized and data driven.

in terms of what your care plan is going to be. you know, a quick example for the audience that kind of lives with the mantra of, okay, I need to go to the hygienist. I know that according to the way I was brought up, I need to go and see the dentist once every six months, right?

There is a world five years from now where some patients will need to see the dentist once every three months and some patients will need to see the dentist once a year. It really depends on what your personal condition is. And then going from there, the different care recommendations that you would get are much more personalized to whatever the condition is. The other thing

And the flip side of it is that the care would actually be much more transparent and standardized. there's this, for those of us in the oral health and dental industry, there's so many misconceptions about, by patients, justifiably and unjustifiably that, you know, they...

Pam (40:52.687)
they're trying to oversell or they're trying to, you know, get more money for me when I get when I go to the dentist and so forth. So now with automation and personalization, the next step is going to be standardization of you know, what if you go to one dentist versus the other, you know, how much something would cost and why is that the recommendation for you?

And then the last thing I would say is probably in the holy grail of part of our conversation today, which is full integration with the medical system. know, someone we always, we always talk about someone taking a very interesting, a very interesting, and for some of us not, you know, we're not sure whether it was a smart decision to

Corey Dion Lewis (41:33.474)
Mm-hmm.

Pam (41:48.415)
and bifurcate the two systems 100 years ago. So you have your medical insurance and then you have your dental insurance. We, you know, a lot of us believe that those should be merged back together to be part of the of the full system. Because there's, there's so much connections, the connection between you know, your oral health and your full body health, as we discussed. But in terms of Grimm's role,

Corey Dion Lewis (41:56.066)
Yeah.

Pam (42:19.151)
We hope to meet that transformation. really do have the tools to help do that on many levels, both in terms of the hardware and in terms of the software and the algorithms, but also kind of the cultural attention to what is needed in order to go through that paradigm shift. And we really hope that the grin would be that

that smart catalyst to that change.

Corey Dion Lewis (42:56.28)
Mm-hmm.

No, that's amazing. know, there are what I really love about, you know, health tech right now, there are so many people innovating and doing, trying to do really, really good work. You know, what advice would you give to founders of health tech or health tech innovators looking to build more equitable products?

Pam (43:22.317)
Yeah. I would say, start by listening. So I know, again, this might sound a little bit cliche, but equity, excuse me, equity can't be bolted on, it has to be a foundational thought. And once you kind of listen to the

Corey Dion Lewis (43:43.82)
Right.

Pam (43:49.551)
users that are actually less visible to you. And then you would find the answers on how to design your product in a more equitable way. So yes, just build with them in mind and don't consider that to be kind of an afterthought or you you'll bolt them in after the fact.

Corey Dion Lewis (44:12.44)
No, I love that. Pam, thank you so much for your time today and one, letting me know that I need to be thinking more about my oral health care, not only for myself, but for the people that I serve. For those that are listening or are watching this interview right now, where can they, and they want to connect with you, where can they reach you? Where can they learn more about Grin?

Pam (44:40.758)
absolutely. So number one, welcome to reach me in my email Pamela at get dash grin.com. And just go to our website, get dash grin.com or on LinkedIn or any one of those social media platforms like Instagram or Facebook, where we're there and we're publishing.

you know, a lot of the stuff that we're doing in the communities and in the private sector as well as the public sector. And then we, I would say, are interested to continue the conversation. We've, we already have conversations going with associations, whether it's the

and National Association of Community Health Centers, whether it's the American Dental Association, we're having all these, we're having conversations with public health, some policymakers, public health leaders, sorry, and we're having conversations with medical device leaderships as well. Everyone kind of wants to be part of the conversation. But if there is one thing I will say,

is that we are doers. We're looking to collaborate with people who are not just talking about the fact that there is a problem, but are also ready to walk the talk and are ready to actually do. We, Grin, we are the technology. We are enablers. So we at Grin feel like the solution exists.

It's just a matter of taking a decision to implement it and deploy it and the change will happen inevitably. So anyone who is ready to do, we're ready to talk to you. while I understand that change doesn't happen overnight, we're very eager to start making change.

Corey Dion Lewis (46:34.453)
that's awesome.

Pam (46:52.693)
After all, you know, the mouth is the front door into the body. So that's one thing I'll leave you with.

Corey Dion Lewis (47:01.516)
Yes, no, I love that. And we'll end with that. Pam, again, thank you so much for your time. This was awesome. I'm so glad we were able to do it. Everybody, thank you for listening to the Healthy Project podcast. I'll highlight you next time.

Pam (47:18.531)
Thank you so much. And thank you for lighting this light on this important issue that a lot of time gets overlooked. Thank you so much, Cor.

Corey Dion Lewis (47:27.982)
100%. And hopefully this won't be the last conversation we have about oral health care.

Pam (47:36.633)
Thanks so much, Corey. It was a pleasure.