00:00.00
coreydionlewis
Hello everybody thank you for listening to the healthy project podcast I'm your host Corey Dion Lewis my guest today super thankful and grateful for having them on I have the founding director of the association of American Medical Colleges Center

00:00.00
Philip Alberti
That wolf.

00:19.25
coreydionlewis
Ah, center for healthy justice I have Dr Philip Alberti here with me today. Dr Alberti thank you so much for being here I really appreciate it.

00:28.90
Philip Alberti
No thank you Cory and please call me fill up. It's ah it's a privilege to be here with you.

00:31.34
coreydionlewis
All right? Perfect well Philip before we get into the the conversation today. Can you tell the people a little bit about yourself and what gets you up in the morning.

00:43.16
Philip Alberti
Sure, ah, you know it's interesting I was on this panel on Friday and this and this co-pres presenter started her talk not just with a disclosure like an academic disclosure but a positionality statement. So I'm gonna I'm going to test that out here. So I don't usually do do something like this but here are some.

00:58.37
coreydionlewis
Um, okay.

01:00.65
Philip Alberti
Here are some identities that I think resonate with some of the conversation. We'll have today. So I'm a Cis male gay man I'm white but more specifically half Sicilian Half Russian jew I'm a first generation high school on my dad's side college of my mom's side so kind of a strong working class background. I'm the father of an adopted multiracial kid I'm a gen xer I'm a new englander. So I think those are some of kind of the descriptors that that come to mind for me about what I do I think is also tied to who I am and I think that's true for most of us. Ah, if not all of us in this health equity or social justice space. It's kind of deeply personal right? So I'm ah a population health scientist. Ah specifically a health equity researcher and that focus has been kind of the throughline of all of my education and professional work for like 2025 years so on the day-to-day now I would say I guess what I do is I try to.

01:39.80
coreydionlewis
Um.

01:54.43
Philip Alberti
Make the most profound contributions that I can to this movement given the skills and networks and the privilege that I have to amplify the work of others to build bridges and make connections to model I Think what it means to do health equity work in an authentic Way. Um. And I think all of that gets me up in the morning right? family and work and of course trying to create opportunities for my son and my family so that he and his community can thrive. But I think that's true for all communities I Truly believe that that Health equity is for all of us and so that's my commitment.

02:13.10
coreydionlewis
No.

02:29.27
coreydionlewis
Yeah, it. It just sounds like you go to sleep and wake up trying to improve and prove this and you've been doing this before there was a word for our term health equity. It's like you've been doing it. You've been in the game for a long time.

02:29.94
Philip Alberti
And that's what I do.

02:45.24
Philip Alberti
Yeah, but you know thinking about this in advance of this talk and so I went all the way back to my senior college thesis in the mid 90 s so I was a social psych major and it focused on kind of inequities and the prevalence of mental illness.

02:47.28
coreydionlewis
What.

02:55.11
coreydionlewis
Move.

03:02.28
Philip Alberti
And injustices around which youth get adjudicated which get moved to services kind of racial ethnic differences and who's kind of penalized versus who's cared for and that goes all the way back to the mid 90 s so this has been this has been it. This has been the passion.

03:07.82
coreydionlewis
Right.

03:18.87
coreydionlewis
Yeah, so can you tell me? ah a little bit more about that like um, how did you become interested in Health equity. What was that start for you.

03:26.42
Philip Alberti
So my parents growing up. They both had a really strong almost too strong sense of fairness right? No one's gonna get the better of us. No one's gonna pull the wool over our eyes for for ourselves. Our friends certainly are children almost unlike that.

03:35.86
coreydionlewis
M.

03:45.29
Philip Alberti
Like a clan kind of way like we're going to make sure that that everything's fair, um, and I can remember you know so there's some part of like hardwired in me and I came remember being a little kid like four or five years old unable to watch the roadrunner cartoons because of how unfair it was. Like the laws of physics didn't apply to the coyote like the roadrunner would zip through the painted on cave door and then the and the coyote would get smashed and I would have to leave the room and I think then you know that sounds trite. But I think upon that I think my own lived experience. Personal experience kind of deepened that commitment.

04:03.71
coreydionlewis
Um, right.

04:21.26
Philip Alberti
Kind of moving away from fairness to 1 of really justice right in kind of that John Rawls sense of you know equal opportunity making sure we're caring for the the worst off among us. You know, equal liberties and and able to access those liberties and so I think in my formative years. You know on the one hand I can point to some instances you know so my mom grew up in roxbury massachusetts so Van and still is a predominantly black neighborhood. All of her friends were black and so racism in my house was simply not tolerated and so I think it was a really important. Kind of set of learnings for me from her experience that was great on the one hand on the other it really gave her a sense of like these rose colored glasses because her life was kind of racially harmonic so far as she could tell it took me like 30 years to convince her that what I do and what I've committed.

05:05.26
coreydionlewis
Yeah.

05:12.48
Philip Alberti
Myself too is worth it and necessary. Um, and then of course I saw my own black and brown friends. You know and I would hang out in tower records or newberry comics which ones of us got followed which ones of us got stopped by the police you know and then kind of those structural inequities of you know, riding the t is an eleven twelve year old the metro in Boston the subway. And's kind of just seeing community assets and resource change over time right? Not quite understanding why there were these huge inequities I didn't have that word then between you know where I lived where some of my other friends lived etc. Ah on the classism front I think I learned a lot of lessons and we I have lots of stories on this one.

05:40.17
coreydionlewis
Right.

05:51.11
Philip Alberti
You know I mentioned I come from a really working class background and found myself through kind of luck and perseverance and a dollop of nerdiness at these incredible like institutions of higher education boarding schools and ivy league colleges and I cover this one really kind of seminal moment for me. In Ninth grade at boarding school. We had Peggy Mcintosh who's a sociologist she came and she spoke to our all-school assembly and I went to like the most privileged boarding school. You can possibly imagine right? I just otherworldly and and her talk that morning was about the invisible knapsack of white privilege.

06:26.19
coreydionlewis
And.

06:27.62
Philip Alberti
The things that white folks are born with that. We don't even recognize that we have kind of attached to us that give us passes and in certain situations and I had certainly seen that reality as I said coming up at 101112 years old with my friends and I looked around kind of this auditorium that was filled with like the most. Privileged kids from the most privileged families and I don't think many of them were listening or paying attention and kind of recognize that in this room like we had that power and that privilege to unpack those backpacks and to share the contents.

06:54.65
coreydionlewis
Ooh.

07:05.20
Philip Alberti
With with all of my friends and all of our friends and all of the diverse communities not in a 0 sum game not in kind of taking something from community a and giving to community b but really lifting up and creating that equal opportunity for health for all of us and I think kind of my recognizing that at 14 kind of seeing. How that message might not have been getting through to those other kids in that auditorium that had even more privileges than I had I think that was the start of a real formal commitment to the work of of health equity and justice.

07:30.50
coreydionlewis
Right. Right? You just saw it sounds like to me not only growing up and understanding that there you you have this feeling of wanting a balance in the world and then then you saw this opportunity of hey I could actually. Because of my privilege I can make a change and kind of balance things out. It just has been driven driving you ever since. So you yeah you bring up Health equity and Health Justice and my my question is is there.

07:59.89
Philip Alberti
That's a much more succinct way of putting a core. Yes, yes.

08:10.37
coreydionlewis
Is there a difference. You know what is the difference between Health equity and Health Justice because I feel like um when we talk about one. We usually talk about the other.

08:18.40
Philip Alberti
Yeah, so I can say how we in the center have operationalized these 2 concepts so at the at the the most terse level. We say that health equity is our goal and health justice is the path that gets us there. But I think it's worth. Spending a little time kind of what we mean by that so you know health equity. We're all aware of that kind of Cdc or whodefinition health equity is the state where every community has a fair and just opportunity to be as healthy as it can be and that's and that's an important kind of loadstar. But it's also pretty vague.

08:37.99
coreydionlewis
Um e.

08:52.87
Philip Alberti
And so it's pretty abstract like what does that actually mean on the ground and so a new framework that we've really adopted is the vital conditions for Health Framework vital conditions for Health and well-being so like what are those basic kind of fundamental kind of floor things that all of our communities have to have to thrive reliable transportation. Meaningful work. You know freedom from Racism and discrimination humane housing it kind of takes that social determinants of health frame like housing as a social determinant and actually flips it on like the asset-based like the actual goal We don't just want any housing we want humane housing.

09:21.77
coreydionlewis
Right.

09:30.56
Philip Alberti
And at the framework's core is belonging in civic muscle right? connection power voting and so so for us at the center kind of taking that cdc health equity definition of that state. We say that health equity is achieved when every community has and provides like almost at a default. Those basic vital conditions that every community needs to thrive right? and so that's kind of our goal and we say that health justice we talk about it like this. We say we keep one foot in community wisdom and multisector partnership. That's our process but that's how we do this work making sure that lived experience and expertise is at the center of any. Potential solution then the action foot is working with that multisector community based and driven knowledge. How do we do? the kinds of research the kinds of population Health Science Policy analysis evaluation science etc that we can then actually find solutions that can be embedded. But into policies and practice changes at all levels federal state local and organizational right? and that we use both of those feet to walk towards health justice in a very explicitly anti-racist anti-discriminatory way who are we partnering with whose voice has power right? Who are we listening to who's helping build these solutions. And holding ourselves accountable for that so we see them as unbelievably complimentary and I'm sure there are others I think we're in this place and time right now where there are a lot of definitions around concepts of equity and justice and so that's how we in the center at the double Amc of have operationalize. It.

10:53.18
coreydionlewis
Right.

11:01.24
coreydionlewis
Right? And I think that's so great I think the way you put it for for example with within my space as a as a health coach at a federally qualified Health Center I may you you hear a lot. You know there's there are food pantries and food services all over the place which is great but it's not great when these food pantries are just filled with processed food. That's not helping the person right? So it's is one of those things. Why yeah, we we want housing for everybody but we also want safe.

11:29.26
Philip Alberti
Correct.

11:37.13
coreydionlewis
And Humane housing you mean you when you said that like that made me think of yeah I I do like that we have food pantries. Are you know all these different resources but are they doing right by the community are they do are they are we doing the right thing.

11:54.40
Philip Alberti
So and then you get you know I think one of my big fears again. A population health person I think the medicalization of Community Health of Population health.

11:54.29
coreydionlewis
Within these spaces.

12:01.57
coreydionlewis
Um.

12:04.84
coreydionlewis
Who talk about it who.

12:06.37
Philip Alberti
Is is to our detriment in the detriment of our communities right? So when we you know many of our institutions. Our academic health centers say we're screening for social determinants. Well you're You're not really screening for whether a community has. Enough saturation of affordable housing. You're certainly not screening for humane Housing. You're screening for that individual patient right? Real urgent need or on being unhoused or or marginally housed right? And that's a really important thing to Intervene on for that patient right? And that's good patient care making sure right that you're.

12:34.40
coreydionlewis
Right.

12:39.25
Philip Alberti
The care you're providing can take root and flourish because those basic needs for that patient are dealt with but that's not making a move in terms of creating opportunity for entire communities all at once and that's really the work I think of Health Justice is is taking you know a policy or a regulatory pen. You know and creating with that one signature right? A huge new opportunity for health all at once for entire populations.

13:05.50
coreydionlewis
Right? No, that's good. You talked about earlier um at the forefront of what you do making sure that um the voices of the people in these communities are these ah that perspective be be at the table. You know you know I mean like.

13:19.22
Philip Alberti
Um, that.

13:21.63
coreydionlewis
Um, how can we ensure that the voices and perspective of marginalized communities are represented in discussions around health injustice and ah how can we work to empower these communities to advocate for their own health needs.

13:36.18
Philip Alberti
Huh So I'm gonna I'm gonna say this. So I think communities already have power and so I don't think it's my job or anyone's job right to give power to the community I think it's more we have to change our structures and systems.

13:41.78
coreydionlewis
Move I like that. Um.

13:53.17
Philip Alberti
So to allow right? that power to to be heard to be adhered to to be listened to be part of that conversation I think we have to show up in our partnerships ready right? to share in power right? and to and kind of combine our powers together. Um, but at the end of the day. So aside from that little language thing because I think a lot. You know that's the other thing we could talk about Corey is how you know the the antiequity forces kind of use our own language against us. Maybe that's maybe that's another another conversation. But I think but I think at the core of like creating that space.

14:19.61
coreydionlewis
Um, oh let's talk about it today I love that.

14:30.18
coreydionlewis
Yeah.

14:31.85
Philip Alberti
Where you know clinical power academic power Scientific power Community power can be shared and co-located I Think for me that's and for the center but for me also as an individual. It's all about trustworthiness right? and making sure that individuals and organizations.

14:43.45
coreydionlewis
Right.

14:49.35
Philip Alberti
Have traditionally benefited from power and privilege right that we begin to show that we are worthy of communities trust and I think that's a really important kind of flipping of the script from saying you know communities should just get over their mistrust and distrust because you know we're not like that anymore. Well chances are you might be. And really because of the history and the contemporary like realities of abuse and marginalization at the hand of our organizations. The time has come for ah to us to really through concrete action co-developed action with community at the table like what is it going to take to demonstrate that trustworthiness and so the first. The first thing our center did was actually create our principles of trustworthiness toolkit in a co-developed way with members of our charge collaborative and 30 or so members of local communities from from 7 different towns and cities across the country to really understand what it means like to authentically. Right? Demonstrate that trustworthiness.

15:45.70
coreydionlewis
Right? What? what kind of feedback have you got from that any anything that stands out to you right now from some of that feedback. Yeah.

15:54.22
Philip Alberti
From the the trustworthiness work. It's so funny I think so you know a we we just mentioned language and voice. It is. It is a it is a product that is absolutely not in the voice of Philip or the center or the amc I'll just give you a taste of some of these community co-developed principles right? So the first one. Is the community is already educated. That's why it doesn't trust you right? That's about respect and responsibility when ah the the reason this toolkit was developed so early. Twenty Twenty ah early in the pandemic when everything had exploded and we had just started to like turn our attention.

16:16.80
coreydionlewis
And you.

16:31.60
Philip Alberti
The development of potential vaccines. We heard a lot of experts on the news on Tv Clinical experts, scientific experts. Public Health experts saying like what community needed right? Didn't hear any community voice or community perspective but a lot of folks talking on Behalf of Community. And think oftentimes the message that I heard from those those experts was like oh if only we had right? This magical pamphlet right? that had the right pictures that looked like our community with the right language that that would be understandable by the Community. We could kind of put this in the community and educate the community.

17:05.87
coreydionlewis
M.

17:08.70
Philip Alberti
And they would then trust us they would realize that we are not like that anymore and I think that was when we as we were building the center in 20192020 really realized that's the foundation. That's the foundation of that process foot of of working with community wisdom and different Partners. You can't do this work but you can't develop. Local solutions if you are not seen as a trustworthy partner. Um, and so that was that that that was one of my my favorite principles kind of speaks directly to that is to to take responsibility for your present and historical actions and have some respect.

17:40.52
coreydionlewis
Right.

17:46.11
Philip Alberti
When you want to partner with Us. You're not here to educate.. You're here to partner here to work with or you're here to learn from right? The education goes in all directions and so I think you know I Really do believe that we have as much if not more to learn from local community wisdom and locally developed solutions than all of my doctoral training. Could certainly bring to Bear. So.

18:05.89
coreydionlewis
Yeah there's there's something about the about experience with the expertise or the research that plays a key role I currently we are doing this I'm a part of this committee where we're trying to bring mental health. Destigmatized mental health conversations in the black community. So we're coming up with all of these different wordings and strategies. But we did something similar to what you were talking about Philip and we gave it to the community and what we found out was from this younger generation. It was like we don't.

18:41.89
Philip Alberti
Right? right? It's so funny that you say that my dissertation looked at Stigma of mental illness and was really interested in like the labels that were applied.

18:41.99
coreydionlewis
Talk like the way y'all thought we like we don't need that and.

18:53.82
coreydionlewis
Um, yeah.

18:56.71
Philip Alberti
And how those labels differ between different kinds of communities because the interventions are going to need to be different right depending on the and and yes the the younger set today. We have ah a research brief a polling brief coming out next week where we did a nationally representative sample of generation z.

19:01.13
coreydionlewis
Absolutely.

19:15.79
Philip Alberti
Ah, and and looked at kind of nonpartisan areas of agreement of a health justice agenda right? It was shocking to me that it's either 75% or 79% so I know I'll fudge the number a little bit over 70% of conservative members of generation z.

19:22.51
coreydionlewis
M.

19:35.43
Philip Alberti
Said that Healthcare care is a human right? And the federal government has a responsibility to provide Health care that was conservative right? So we have a lot to learn our ideas I don't know what generation you are I'm solidly Generation X My ideas are outdated right? They they do not fly anymore. Yes.

19:47.11
coreydionlewis
You? But yeah I'm 39 s what of it was that millen in my millennial still. Yes, yeah I don't I don't remember if that's a good or a bad thing. But I'm I'm awry with it. Yeah.

19:55.27
Philip Alberti
I Think you might be a millennial. Yeah yeah.

20:06.68
coreydionlewis
You know, quick question this you know, kind of as we've been talking talking about research the experience of the Community. What is the the balance because I know you're you're a researcher and you and you look at things from a population Health perspective. But what's a good marriage between the the 2 Because you you kind of brought up you were talking about Covid Nineteen There was some good research and evidence of what could work but the way we were maybe implementing it or bringing it to the community was not Great. So What's a good marriage between solid information and then giving and then.

20:43.69
Philip Alberti
Dep.

20:45.50
coreydionlewis
Getting the feedback from the community and and how we can help more people.

20:50.76
Philip Alberti
That's that's that's the perfect question I just attended this global health forum this past week and there was so much conversation about implementation science right? Evaluation science is when I when I laid out that health justice framework and that action foot that research to policy action foot.

21:01.85
coreydionlewis
Um, I mean.

21:08.20
Philip Alberti
That's kind of where in that scientific spectrum I think we need to focus right? You might have a core you will have research will give you a core of the best available knowledge right? And then there's the question like you said how do you disseminate? How do you take a program that's evidence-based in community a and spread in scale to diverse communities. When the context the reality on the ground is going to necessarily absolutely be completely different and so there are kinds of research that we can do implementation Science Evaluation Science Program Evaluation process evaluation to really again in a community partnered way like from the beginning.

21:27.23
coreydionlewis
Um.

21:44.43
Philip Alberti
Right? If you have a new research set you want to figure out how to develop a program or a way to disseminate and to get communities to adhere to to this thing or to you know, be aware of this new guideline right? You have to stop right work with your community partners right? Understand. What are the right communication channels who are the right messengers right? What are the right? The right vehicles the right? not just the images but the way to translate those scientific findings into meaningful actionable contexts specific um solutions and I think that's. That's also part and parcel of the work of health justice is that understanding that it's not a one size fits all right? You know critics would say that's my colonialism kind of attitude that there has to be a right way to do it. You know it is okay that there are a hundred right ways to do it and those hundred right ways can still be wrapped around you know a kernel.

22:29.52
coreydionlewis
Um, no.

22:39.17
Philip Alberti
Scientific truth Um, and if our goal is to kind of have that truth win the day and not the misinformation or disinformation. The only way to do that is through true authentic kind of partnership.

22:50.90
coreydionlewis
Right? No truera thinktic partnership. Yeah I really I like that a lot um going back to more of like ah you know the health justice piece Philip when when I feel like when I hear health justice me personally you know at the beginning.

23:07.79
Philip Alberti
Um, is it.

23:10.50
coreydionlewis
What I thought of was you know, um you know the issues Africanamericans have with the Justice system and think you know things like that you know is very very you know African-american Focused I'm ah I'm a black man you know, but.

23:18.82
Philip Alberti
Ah, yeah.

23:27.51
coreydionlewis
Also understanding that when we talk about Health Justice. There are many different communities. Um cultures that are affected when what what are some of those that you guys really focus on and you know can you kind of break down you know Health Justice in different communities that it does that you guys do. Look at and who it impacts.

23:49.70
Philip Alberti
I Am so glad that you that you brought this up because I think one of the the biggest weaknesses and I fall into this myself. Ah an enormous weakness of kind of those of us in this space is that we are so good at like yelling our truth at each other. We can yell our truth each other all day.

24:04.87
coreydionlewis
Um, every.

24:06.56
Philip Alberti
We are terrible at making the 100% accurate case that a health equity agenda is truly literally for all of us for every community I think you know we I mentioned maybe but we can loop this back into the conversation about about narrative and language.

24:16.51
coreydionlewis
Um I want.

24:24.51
Philip Alberti
And think one of the ways in which kind of equity detractors. Um use our own kind of words against us right? There's been a lot of talk about how you know Health equity only focuses on making sure that the health that outcomes are the same.

24:32.11
coreydionlewis
Right.

24:42.61
Philip Alberti
That's not true in both the definitions we talked about it's about opportunity because if you have real sustainable opportunity. The outcomes will follow right? and I think there's another kind of really harmful myth. A harmful narrative that we in the equity business so to speak or it's almost like robinhood social Justice. Like I'm going to steal Health from Community A and give it to Community B that is also not this scarcity mindset is all pace right? We have the ability right now in that in this country we are by some measures right? The wealthiest nation that has ever existed right? We can make sure.

25:05.81
coreydionlewis
1 man.

25:18.50
Philip Alberti
That every single community white black brown straight gay poor rich right? All of our communities have those basic vital conditions. We're not saying everyone has to have a mansion right? but everyone should have humane housing that that should not be a stretch and so I think part of what you're getting at is you know. This the agenda right? The health equity agenda is for all of us and so in and the center work. We. We make sure you know in our public opinion polling. For example that we are slicing those data in many different ways right? looking not just at racial ethnic inequities or differences but socioeconomic or geography. For example. You know we've done a lot of work with lgbt q I a perspectives both in service of Maternal Health and the experiences of lgbt birthing people and kind of really focusing in on some of those unique and specific challenges on our paid leave analysis. We did a whole bunch. Yes, on looking at racial ethnic inequities. And who has access to paid leave but also on socioeconomic differences on who actually takes paid leave and then its relationship to maternal mental health outcomes and postpartum depression. So I think we have to be intentional about making sure that we are broadening our tent. And the way that we speak about health equity as the goal of equal opportunity and not forced outcomes at the end because that's not what it is I think we have to make it clear that we are not just focused on 1 or two priority communities because there are so many priority communities again going back to walls sure that we're paying attention.

26:46.99
coreydionlewis
Right.

26:51.22
Philip Alberti
And doing the work to kind of lift up those that are the worst off that doesn't mean we have to take away from those that are the best off and so I think part of my commitment and and again I'm not perfect at it by any stretch is doing a better job and making it clear that when I say every community hasn't provides these vital conditions. Really mean every community and that there's no one that I want to kind of take away from to make that a reality for somebody else I don't think we have to do that I think that's um, a false Scenario. It has to be and absolutely has to be.

27:11.91
coreydionlewis
Um.

27:19.50
coreydionlewis
Right? It's not. It's not a this or that it a it can be a this and that yeah you know you know where when it when it comes to well I say health equity and health justice Philip for me is where I feel like man.

27:28.37
Philip Alberti
Yes.

27:38.79
coreydionlewis
Am I question myself am I dropping the ball or am I am I not doing enough when it comes to policy I I say to myself a lot I don't want to be involved with politics at all like not even a little bit and then I go should I though because.

27:50.93
Philip Alberti
Um, just so I hear that.

27:58.72
coreydionlewis
There is a piece of of understanding what's going on that can improve communities. So maybe I'm asking this question because I want to feel better about myself. But.

28:12.42
coreydionlewis
But but but how much does um, policy in in being mindful and understanding that play a role in improving health outcomes for all in ah in Health justice.

28:13.20
Philip Alberti
Um, yeah I'm here for you Cory this.

28:27.34
Philip Alberti
Yeah, it's at the core like sorry to tell you to the very very core right? but it doesn't have to be politics so policy and politics might be might be different because I don't want to get involved in politics either. But you so my training and I'll say it this way and then I'll link it to.

28:31.79
coreydionlewis
And it oh gotcha.

28:44.67
Philip Alberti
To to my friend Daniel Daw's political determinants of health work. So my yes, right? So good so important and I think that speaks to exactly with with what your questions but digging at so my training was in social factors as fundamental causes of disease so social factors like racism classism sexism homophobia.

28:45.98
coreydionlewis
I read it I Love that book.

29:04.60
Philip Alberti
Pick yourism pick your phobia right? and the idea is these social conditions. They do 3 things they influence and impact many many different outcomes so we know that's true. They take many paths to kind of exert that influence you you can close off 1 path and they're clever. They'll find a thousand other ways right.

29:06.47
coreydionlewis
Um, yeah.

29:22.44
Philip Alberti
To end in racist or classes or sexist outcomes and they also control access to really important health promoting resources like power like information like money or like beneficial social connections. So those are fundamental causes and I don't think we need to look like very far at all in 2023 to see the way that those isms and phobias are working their way into our political determinants of health like as we speak right? Whether it's racism and voting restrictions. Whether it's sexism and restrictions on reproductive rights whether it's transphobia and pick a state right? trying to erase trans people from the face.

29:47.40
coreydionlewis
Um, yeah, you.

29:56.30
coreydionlewis
Right.

29:59.91
Philip Alberti
Of of the of the planet right? So if if policies as those policies clearly can can erase opportunity for health for entire communities with the stroke of a pen right? The only kind of commensurate reaction to that is to undo that work with policy again. To recreate that opportunity to open up that opportunity to give those rights back via policy. It's not 1 pill at a time or 1 clinician at a time right? The work of Health Erene health justice is at that deep kind of political determinants of health level because those. Political decisions as Daniel would say the decisions that we make or don't make the political actions we take or don't take they maldistribute those vital conditions across our communities right? And that's what I saw at age 12 right in the metro in Boston right going from my working class community through Cambridge and Brookline you know and then to get. Back to door Chester and roxbury to see how those vital conditions are unfairly distributed and I and I truly believe the only way to do that again is to work with local communities right? develop those hyper local solutions see what works and then figure out a way to spread and scale that through science that can embed. Those solutions into those kinds of policy and practice changes across all levels and across all communities.

31:16.62
coreydionlewis
No I love that I love that so policy is different than politics and I I like that so much because I I always meshed the 2 in in my mind you know? yeah.

31:28.70
Philip Alberti
Yeah, politics like the people and I don't want to get in touch that you know I don't want that. That's just taking policies.

31:36.84
coreydionlewis
Yeah, ah absolutely oh man Philip again. Thank you so much for being on the podcast with me today. Anybody that's listening and wants to learn more about you. What you do at the AhW ah WAc you know center for health justice.

31:46.41
Philip Alberti
Um, yeah.

31:53.93
coreydionlewis
And learn more about that where can they where can they find you.

31:55.24
Philip Alberti
Sure so me personally I'm on Linkedin I'm also on Twitter for now so you can find me there Philip Albertti Pmlberti the center is also on Twitter and its handle is at Amc justice. Our main website is achealthjustice.org you can sign up. For a monthly newsletter. You can be a member of charge we work with charge as as a first go to for all of the work that we do and if folks in your audience are particularly interested in maternal health equity our next kind of big event is our may eighteenth Maternal Health workshop really thinking about how we can leverage new tools like Ai and natural language processing to center patient and community voice in service of maternal health equity. So that's 10 to 3 on 185 registration is open I'm excited to connect with your listeners.

32:35.91
coreydionlewis
You're gonna.

32:47.45
Philip Alberti
And thank you again for this incredible opportunity Cory but.

32:50.20
coreydionlewis
Yeah, no problem. Thank you so much again. Thank you and um, everyone Thank you for listening to the healthy project podcast I'll like you next time.