Corey Dion Lewis (00:01.478)
Hello everybody. Thank you for being here. The Healthy Project Podcast. I'm your host, Corey Dion Lewis. I have another great guest with me today. This interview is really just a conversation about a whole lot, a journey around mental wellness. This person has a new book out, Unmasking the Hurt, which I'm definitely going to be discussing and talking

what got you to that point, to get to this book and amongst everything around mental health and wellbeing, I have Ronnie C. Jackson, or Cyrus Jackson with me today. Ronnie, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (00:43.33)
Yes.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (00:49.386)
No problem, my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me to your space, Corey. This is awesome.

Corey Dion Lewis (00:56.255)
Yes, no, absolutely. So, you know, before we get to talking about, you know, our discussion today, can you tell the people a little bit more about yourself, what you do, and what gets you up in the morning?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (01:08.886)
Yeah, great question. I actually, you know, it's funny, I used to shun this question. Yeah, but now I embrace this question. Yeah, but who I am, I'm Ronnie Cyrus Jackson. I'm actually a native of Des Moines. So born and raised in Des Moines, Iowa. I have since moved away and have lived several other places. Professionally, I am a project manager. So I'm a PMP certified project manager.

Corey Dion Lewis (01:15.403)
Ehh... What?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (01:37.87)
I have been in the financial industry space for over 20 years and now currently I am writing, speaking, and advocating for all things mental health. Which brings me to my book. Why did I write my book? And we'll get into that in just a little bit.

Corey Dion Lewis (01:58.262)
Yes, yeah. And I haven't been able to read the book yet. I definitely will. I've heard great things about it. I've heard, I saw a few videos or a video of you on Facebook. I want to say Breanne posted a video of you speaking at your event the other day. And it's just, the beauty of that is seeing, we all know, especially in the black community, this conversation around mental health is

is hard, still hard. And I know a lot of people who are talking about it openly, but a lot of people for me is like, it's not a whole lot of people if you think about the whole scheme of it. It's still, the stigma is still hard to break in our community. So the fact that you're able to get people together and talking about something, not just mental health, but your story around mental wellness and where you're at, that is,

That is commendable and that is not as easier said than done.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (03:04.118)
Yeah, I totally agree. Totally agree.

Corey Dion Lewis (03:08.594)
So tell us a little bit about your journey with mental health. Where did the courage and inspiration come from to write this book, Unmasking the Hurt?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (03:20.458)
Yeah, such a great question. So the inspiration came, Corey, it was back in 2013, I actually started a nonprofit here in Des Moines. And my nonprofit was called Absolutely You. So it was absolutely and positively you, really embracing our authentic selves.

And so when I started that nonprofit, I also had started some healing circles for girls and women who had been sexually assaulted or raped or sexually abused as children or molested as children. And so I wanted to talk about and discuss and create space for those girls and women to connect with one another so that they could support one another.

And what I quickly found is there was no curriculum written at that time for that specific niche, that specific area of need. So I created my own curriculum. In creating my own curriculum, that actually birthed this book. So that curriculum that I created in 2013, this here book is now the narrative to that curriculum.

And that's how this came to be.

Corey Dion Lewis (04:43.036)
Mmm.

Corey Dion Lewis (04:47.126)
Wow. So tell me a little bit more about, as you're creating that curriculum and talking about something that is, for a lot of people, people wanna hide it or don't even know where to go, how was that mentally for you? Preparing that and trying to help these women and girls talking about something that is so hard to talk about already.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (04:49.229)
Yeah.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (05:17.27)
Yeah, yeah. Wow, thank you for that question. How was it for me? Actually creating the curriculum was easy. Let's take a step back. You asked a question a couple moments ago that I didn't answer and I want to. You said, tell me about you and where you've come from. And so it's to understand me and where I come from, you will then begin to understand the curriculum and the need for it.

So growing up here in Des Moines, Iowa, I grew up to parents who were not able to take care of me. They didn't have the capacity to take care of me. I write about it in my book. And so I grew up in and I aged out of the foster care system. And in the foster care system, I experienced every kind of abuse that you can imagine. So sexual abuse, physical abuse.

mental abuse, emotional, spiritual abuse. I experienced it by every single adult who was responsible for caring for me. And so along my, along my journey, I become pregnant and gave birth to my daughter. She's now 29 years old. But I was 13 years old when I became a mom. And so it was

in that season of my life, early, you know, the early parental or mothering season, that I'd made a choice for myself that regardless of what was happening to me, I was actively being abused even when I became a mom because I was still in foster care. I was in eighth grade. I was in middle school when I became a mom. Yeah, and so the commitment that I made to myself and I made to my daughter is if I had anything to do with it,

I was not going to allow her to experience a life that I did. And so when you think about that tall of a commitment, what I realized quickly is I had to do something to heal what was broken on the inside of me. Now understand that in the 90s, healing was not a popular conversation. I will say I didn't get right there.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (07:30.394)
I had some detours along the way and I talk about that too in my book, but eventually when I got married, I was 24 years old, still a young adult when Craig and I got married. It was a situation where we were not getting along well and communicating well and what I quickly realized after a suicide attempt is that I needed to live my life differently and I needed some help doing so.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (08:00.334)
serious and I say serious, my serious attempt at counseling. Because as a child in the foster care system, our social workers make us go through counseling and that's part of the whole thing. So you go through the motions. But as an adult, I had become awakened to the fact that I really need to talk to someone about my adverse childhood experiences. In this space, we call it ACEs. I have an ACE score of 10. And that's the highest score you can get.

And so we can talk about ACEs if you want to go down that road as well. But anyway, just moving through my journey, I realized I wanted to dedicate my life. To helping people who have gone through things that I had gone through. Because when I look back, I remember thinking to myself, wow, who is it that I can call on for help that would understand? And there was nobody. So now I seek to be that person that I used to look for.

Corey Dion Lewis (08:31.29)
Mm.

Corey Dion Lewis (09:02.306)
Wow. I got to let that breathe a little bit. You went from a traumatic experience as a child, another traumatic experience as a child. And this is, man, this is why

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (09:06.614)
Yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (09:24.87)
this conversation, you know, Ronnie, is so important because you never know what somebody is going through. Right? Like we connected, first we connected on LinkedIn. I see your LinkedIn profile, right? PMP, it's got the smile, looking good, but you never know what somebody's experience is, you know? And what's so powerful about your message?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (09:40.224)
Mm-hmm.

Corey Dion Lewis (09:54.942)
One, the courage to talk about it. Some people would take that to the grave, if I'm just being real, right? But not only is real, but you're saving so many people. And I already knew this book was a must, but definitely for those, for women and girls out there, this is definitely something for them, but.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (09:59.978)
Mm-hmm. Oh, that's real. Mm-hmm.

Corey Dion Lewis (10:22.494)
Where I was going, where I was getting at with that is unless we talk more and ask the questions we'll never know how we can help somebody, right? And man, hearing your story, that is powerful. That's a powerful story. But tell me, this is my question for you, and I do want to talk about ACEs and get into that for the audience, to those who don't know.

But I'm curious, how long before when you said, I kind of want to write a book, but understanding you're going to be unpacking some serious, serious things. What was that internal dialogue like that? I'm sure there was a battle of like, I got to do this. And there was a side of you that was like, no, we don't. You know what I mean? Like, what was...

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (11:19.842)
Thank you.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (11:23.414)
Yeah, hmm. You know, writing has been therapy for me. So I've been writing and journaling for a very long time. The writing part of it was easy. It was easy. I mean, I can flow an outline and, you know, after having all these educations and letters behind your name, you kind of get in the flow and a routine of knowing how to write something. Corey, the hard part of this journey has been

Corey Dion Lewis (11:50.211)
Right.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (11:56.31)
arriving at a place of acceptance that I will no longer hold shame or guilt or regret behind my childhood experiences, nor will I allow others to impose, project, deflect, you know, their experiences on onto me. So making me if you will, and I've experienced this, feel shameful for

Sharing so I will and so what does that look like Ronnie? I've had comments like Well, what goes on in your family should stay in your family. You ain't got to tell all your business Well, something should just be kept to yourself. Well, does it really take all of that? I mean these are comments from what I have come to recognize as hurting people But these are comments that are made because people are uncomfortable with perhaps

the information I'm sharing or they resonate with what I'm sharing and it's too difficult for them to wrestle with and I get it. And so and so why or so what was that process like I battled between the two things of am I sharing too much? Am I being too vulnerable or and wow I know this will really bless and help someone.

because I know I used to look for women who I could resonate with and they with me when I was going through my journey and I never found her. And so I think what it boiled down to for me is what is my motivation? And answering that and being real within myself, what is my motivation, good, bad, or indifferent as far as the responses I received? What is my motivation for writing?

And then it became really easy. My motivation is to help someone else who is on their healing journey to find hope, move to a place of authenticity, and experience transformation in their life.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (14:08.758)
Then it became easy.

Corey Dion Lewis (14:09.686)
Mm-hmm what I hear you saying Yeah, why hear you saying it sounds like you recognize that the conversation was bigger than you in a way

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (14:21.053)
Absolutely.

Corey Dion Lewis (14:21.994)
And like, there are, yeah. No, go ahead, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (14:28.498)
Oh no, I agree. The conversation is much bigger than all of us. And really, when you attach Ronnie's name or when you attach Corey's name or you attach whoever's name to it, it's all of our stories. We're in this together. And so it's the power of one, right? It just takes one domino to impact all of the others. Why not start with me?

Corey Dion Lewis (14:48.279)
Oh yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (14:59.126)
Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Gotta start with someone, right? You brought up ACEs earlier and your score of a 10. For those that are listening or watching that don't know what that means or what a score of 10 kind of means, can you talk a little bit more about that?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (15:19.27)
Absolutely. So ACES, ACES was and I write about it in my book and you can also Google ACES. I do want to put a disclaimer out that I am in no way a trained therapist or counselor. I'm not licensed. However, I am a certified mental health life coach and I've been certified since 2014 and I have been practicing since then and

So when I talk about ACEs, I'm talking about ACEs from my lived experiences standpoint, not from a clinician standpoint. Now, saying that to say what I have come to understand and know about ACEs, ACEs is an acronym, or it's the initials of adverse childhood experiences. And adverse childhood experiences, well, what it was, it started out as a survey.

It was some research done in a medical setting in a hospital by some very smart people. And what they had seen and recognized is in the healthcare system, they began to recognize a commonality amongst the people who were coming in for treatment in their emergency rooms, I believe. And so they began to ask questions. Those questions led to a 10 question survey we now call the ACEs or the ACEs survey.

And again, I talk about that in my book, and you can Google it as well. And so the questions on the survey, they are surrounded around childhood experiences related to neglect, abuse, household dysfunction, and then any stressful experiences that a child may have experienced before their 18th birthday. So said question would read,

have you ever, did you experience, and it's either a yes or no answer. So the yes equals one point. No's get zero points. So then you add, and there's 10 questions, you add all of those up and that is your ACE score. So there's 10 questions, my score was 10. So that means that I had scored in every single area on that.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (17:42.662)
on that survey related to abuse, neglect, household dysfunction, and stress, the type of stress I'd experienced as a child. Okay. So then you take, you think about that from a traumatic experiences perspective. It's no wonder that people's behaviors when they experience childhood trauma is

is contrary to the norm of societal norm, because they're acting from a place of trauma. And so when I reared out of the foster care system and I started adulting, if you will, going to work, I was in all of the things, I found that I wasn't relating with people well. I found that I was self-sabotaging at work and limiting myself as far as advancement in my career.

And through counseling, I realized it's because I was dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder. Who knew? However, when you think about it from an ACES perspective, my behaviors were absolutely normal for the amount of trauma that I had experienced as a child. So then it became a situation where I got to choose the next step.

Corey Dion Lewis (18:49.242)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (19:09.238)
Did I want to continue down that path or did I want to change my life? And changing my life meant I had to do some very hard work through counseling, with mentors, even learning new life skills, like how to be, how to emotionally regulate. I had two emotions that I operated from as a child because I had no clue about emotions. It was either happy or sad. And so,

Corey Dion Lewis (19:36.049)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (19:37.206)
So I talk about all of this in my book, but to your point, to your question as far as what is ACEs, I also wanna add a comment here that I don't think the ACEs study does a good job on. They don't talk about culture very much, and sometimes what's normalized, especially in the black culture, those are...

Corey Dion Lewis (19:58.956)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (20:03.878)
It might be considered dysfunctional for overall society, but in our communities, it's absolutely normal behaviors That was challenging for me So when we begin to name things in my experience while I was in counseling early on over 20 some years ago when I begin to name things and My counselor would say do you recognize that as trauma? No because it was normal

Corey Dion Lewis (20:17.464)
No.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (20:31.83)
For instance, we had called people uncle and, oh, that's my cousin, them, but you don't know how. And those are the same predators who was molesting you. You see what the confusion that it could produce for a child. So I'll pause there and I'll let you go.

Corey Dion Lewis (20:32.968)
Right.

Corey Dion Lewis (20:42.215)
Yeah. Wow.

Corey Dion Lewis (20:47.975)
Yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (20:56.078)
Yeah, it's hmm. There's so much with that. What I would like to know.

is you have the score and now you're almost, correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you grew up with no foundation. And now as an adult, going through therapy with mentors, some things you're talking about, you're having to build a foundation on sand. A strong foundation.

on not a great place. That almost sounds physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (21:51.392)
Yes, I would say yes. What you are sensing is correct.

Corey Dion Lewis (21:54.127)
What?

Corey Dion Lewis (21:59.006)
What kept you strong though? Because now though, as we all are, still improving, still building, still doing what we have to do, especially when you're talking about trauma, but you probably were here, but now you're here. You leveled up, you kept leveling up. What kept you motivated? What kept your eye on the prize to keep going when maybe some people were like, you know what?

I'm done trying to figure this thing out.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (22:33.922)
Yeah, great question. So for me, it was a couple of things and it was a series of things. It was, for me, my motivation did not come from one experience or one person. Number one, I would say, knowing that I had a child to take care of who depended on me, I knew that I did not want her to experience the same life that I had.

Corey Dion Lewis (22:58.458)
Mm-hmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (23:04.194)
So that was my first motivation. Number two, when I was in junior high school going into high school, I was introduced to the Upward Bound Program. And in Des Moines, Iowa, Kim Jackson was the Upward Bound Program Director, and she still is to this day. Shout out to Miss Kim. And what Upward Bound gave me was exposure to college.

I had never heard of college in my life before I was in eighth grade. And so with the upper bound program, it's a college preparatory program for high school students who had a desire to go on to college. And so when I learned about that program, of course I enrolled and I'll tell you that the previous director before Ms. Kim, she was not fond of me because of me having a baby and she was, she didn't like that idea.

Okay, nonetheless, Miss Kim gave me grace and allowed me in. And so as I was able to go off and visit colleges, spend the night on college campuses, interact with college students, as a high school student coming from the hood and from where I came from, that was my way out. I seen those experiences and college visits as an opportunity for me to get out of the hood.

Corey Dion Lewis (24:27.178)
Hmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (24:32.222)
and to help me to better my life. So that was another motivator for me. And then three, I would say my faith, my faith in Jesus Christ. Now I understand everyone doesn't participate in higher power and that, and I totally respect that. But for me, it was my faith. What I began to know is that there was something in someone greater than me controlling my life.

And I knew that I had a purpose in this world that I needed to fulfill. There was a reason why I was here and why I existed and why I had survived all that I had. So I had a job to do. And so I just had like an innate feeling of, I'm gonna make this turn out for good someday. Those were the three things for me that motivated me and kept me moving forward.

Corey Dion Lewis (25:24.826)
Right.

Corey Dion Lewis (25:30.658)
Right. Wow. That's amazing. I'm gonna say that a lot during this conversation. It's just so motivating for me just to hear that. Unmasking the Hurt, your book that we've been talking about. What would you like people to get from this book? What are some things you would

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (25:35.787)
Yeah.

Corey Dion Lewis (25:59.198)
learning or takeaways from this book.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (26:03.046)
Oh, there's so many takeaways. I would say, let's go with the top three. The top three things I would love for people to take away from the book, again, it's unmasking the hurt. A journey of healing with hope, authenticity and transformation. Number one, I would love for people to see themselves in this book. Understanding that all of our situations will vary.

We don't go through the same things. However, what I do believe just as a human race is that we can all resonate with the feeling of hard things. And so once we experience those hard things, now what? So I talk about, I give practical tools in the book about how to move past hard experiences. That's number one. Number two, I would like for people to know

Corey Dion Lewis (26:59.645)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (27:00.95)
that they are not alone in their suffering and silence. Imposter syndrome and imposter behavior. There's a lot of folks out here posing y'all. Like it's all good and they have had their life together all the time. And that's not true, people are lying. Yet, this whole buzzword these days of authenticity seems to be attached to everybody. Well, if you're so authentic, why are we?

Corey Dion Lewis (27:14.098)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (27:29.654)
Why are we going through these gyrations and not just being real and saying that we all experience hard things? Why is that such a hard or a taboo topic? I'm trying to normalize that topic. And so through this and the topic, let's be clear, mental well-being, mental health. Yes, that is something we all experience at least once in our lifetime is hard things. So through this book, I want people to know they're not alone in the hard things that they go through.

Corey Dion Lewis (27:34.503)
Right.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (27:58.038)
And then number three, I want especially women and girls, I want them to see themselves in me. What you see today has not always been, it's been an evolution. And it's been by my choices one day at a time to do the hard things in counseling, to face myself, to forgive people who have offended me and violated me in major ways.

Corey Dion Lewis (28:13.551)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (28:27.602)
and then making the choice to do something different. So that's what I want people to get out of the book. I want them to leave, leave having read this book, leave more hopeful.

Corey Dion Lewis (28:43.162)
Wow, yeah, that's great. Before I get you out of here, Ronnie, I know you said you're a life coach, right? And so you have some experience with having this conversation about mental health and kind of breaking that silence or breaking the stigma around having the conversation. What are some of your go-tos or some of your tips are for somebody that

wants to have a conversation with a friend, coworker, family member about how they're feeling or maybe they're noticing how someone else is feeling, right? But they don't know how to approach it. What are some great tools they can be utilizing to approach the conversation and to make talking about your mental health just as normal as talking about sports or talking about the weather?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (29:39.274)
Yeah, great question. So this is my favorite question, and I train around this a lot. So I want to be clear that when having a conversation around mental health, understand it's a sensitive subject and everybody is at a different space in their life or in their experience that you as a person initiating the conversation, should that be the case, understand timing is critical.

at the family dinner table that no that's not that it's not the time for it. So respecting some respecting the timing of the conversation is critical number one number two I'm assuming if this conversation is going to be had that there is a relationship that's understood mutually between the two of you all that makes you.

initiating the conversation okay because just because we're curious about somebody or someone or something doesn't give us permission to broach the topic. If there's no relationship there it's okay that you notice it but you don't have permission. You don't have permission to talk about that. That's just boundaries and then so timing understand the relationship

Corey Dion Lewis (30:43.121)
right?

Corey Dion Lewis (30:53.862)
Right.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (31:07.658)
And then number three, I think it's important that when you do talk about mental health, you talk about it from a space of grace, a space of love, and a space of encouragement and help. Coming at the topic of mental health from a shame-based perspective or a blaming or an accusatory standpoint, that's not helpful for anybody.

And so understand the approach you take. It's critical. So let's role play, Corey, okay? So say, I'm gonna give an example of, this is an example of how I would approach a situation if say you were a good friend of mine and I knew it was okay, okay? I would, I Ronnie would say,

Corey Dion Lewis (31:37.958)
Yeah, no.

Corey Dion Lewis (31:42.234)
Yeah!

Corey Dion Lewis (31:48.493)
Okay.

Corey Dion Lewis (32:02.991)
Okay.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (32:04.738)
Hey Corey, assuming the timing was good and all the things. Hey Corey, is this a good time? I've been thinking about something and I wanna hear from you about it. Is this a good time for you? And you would say.

Corey Dion Lewis (32:21.518)
Yeah, right now this is a good time. Yeah, this is a good time. Of course.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (32:26.895)
And then and then from that once I got permission so what I did is I asked permission that's respectful That's respectful. So I'd show respect. I'd show care next step. I would say is I've been feeling the type of way and I just I'm not quite sure what to do with it I've noticed that when you and I talk I am beginning to feel a bit of anxiety

Corey Dion Lewis (32:34.352)
Mm-hmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (32:55.599)
based on what's being shared. And I just wanna ask, are you okay? Are you okay, Corey?

Your turn.

Corey Dion Lewis (33:06.342)
Mmm.

Corey Dion Lewis (33:10.294)
And what I will say, the way, so the way you approached me there, it makes me feel like I, okay, this is a safe environment and a safe space for me to tell you how I really feel. Instead of just going with, no, I'm good. No, I'm good. Because you communicated to me, you're getting the energy from me. And...

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (33:10.455)
So you.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (33:28.898)
Mm-hmm.

Corey Dion Lewis (33:36.074)
And I'm like, okay, this is why. And because there is that rapport in that relationship.

I can express that. No, that's good. So then I would go in, they're probably just telling you what's going on with me and where I'm at, hey, I'm dressed about work or my kids is acting crazy or, you know, Bill's is dude, I ain't got no, whatever the case may be and I can just lay it out. You gave me permission to give that to you.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (33:48.266)
Mm-hmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (34:00.93)
Yes.

Yes.

Yes, yes. And so then once, and so I would listen. And I would listen because usually what happens, there's power in the pause, right? We can't become so comfortable with hearing our own selves talk that we never make space for others to talk. So I would, I'd cast my net and then the fish will hook it and bite. And I would just, I would just listen.

Corey Dion Lewis (34:19.501)
Mm-hmm.

Corey Dion Lewis (34:27.665)
Mmm.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (34:36.962)
If we were in person, I would probably be intentional to start moving in on you. And what I mean by moving in is getting close. And what I have found is the closer I get, the more raw the feelings become. Sometimes tears come. Sometimes anger comes. And I would continue to lean in.

Corey Dion Lewis (34:37.361)
Wow. No, that's good.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (35:03.654)
eventually probably placing a hand on your shoulder or on your knee just to let you know I'm here, I got you, I'm holding space for you. And I would just let you breathe. And when I say breathe, vent, get it out. And when you're done, we would sit for a while and then I would ask, how can I help?

Corey Dion Lewis (35:22.703)
Right.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (35:32.414)
and I would let you dictate to me how I could help you, I would never ever dare assume that my way of helping you is what you need. Cause it might not be, maybe you say, you know, allowing me to get this out has been so much help because I have been holding this for so long. Thank you. Right now, I'm just gonna sit with this. Even though in my mind, I might think, oh, well,

Corey Dion Lewis (35:33.766)
Wow.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (36:00.65)
I can have a whole laundry list of resources for you, but that's not what you asked me for.

You just asked me to listen, and so I would respect what you asked me for.

Corey Dion Lewis (36:08.674)
Right.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (36:14.546)
And then if you wanted to continue to talk, we'd continue to go back and forth that way. The conversation would indeed be led by you, though I initiated it. That's how, in my opinion, you begin to have conversations about mental health and wellbeing one-on-one, allowing people to own the space, you making space to hold them while they vent, while they breathe. Is that helpful?

Corey Dion Lewis (36:44.454)
That was very helpful, and I think it's gonna be very valuable for the people listening, for sure. Man, that was good. Thank you for that. Ronnie, again, thank you so much for being on the podcast, sharing your story. I'll make sure I have the links to your book. It's on Amazon, correct? People can go and get that.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (37:09.55)
and Barnes & Noble.

Corey Dion Lewis (37:13.27)
Yes, for sure. Outside of the book, if anybody wants to get to learn more about you, connect with you, where can they find you?

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (37:23.382)
Yeah, so there's a few things. I am on LinkedIn is my primary platform that I associate on. And I'm just Ronnie Cyrus Jackson on LinkedIn. I'm also on Facebook under Ronnie Jackson. I'm also on Instagram. Not as much, but I do check it a couple times a week. And it's absolutely you on Instagram. And then my website.

It's just RoniCyrus-Jackson.org.

Corey Dion Lewis (37:59.878)
Well, again, Ronnie, thank you so much. And again, I'll make sure I have all those linked in the description of this episode. So it'll make it easier for everybody to get to those if they want to connect with you. Ronnie, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I truly appreciate your time and sharing your story. And everyone, thank you for listening to the Healthy Project podcast. I'll see you next time.

Ronnie Cyrus-Jackson (38:27.566)
Thank you. Bye-bye for now.